
June 12, 2020
Psychedelic Breakthroughs, $10M Bets, Treating PTSD with MDMA | Rick Doblin on The Tim Ferriss Show
Tim Ferriss is not associated or affiliated with PodcastNotes in any way. All notes are independently created by PodcastNotes and do not imply any sponsorship or endorsement by, or affiliation with, Mr. Ferriss.
Check out The Tim Ferriss Show Episode Page & Show Notes
Key Takeaways
- Rick founded MAPS (Multidisciplinary Association for Psychedelic Studies) as a non-profit organization in 1986 to raise awareness and understanding of psychedelic substance
- 56% of patients no longer required treatment for PTSD after two months of MDMA-assisted psychotherapy
- “Most subjects received just two to three sessions of MDMA-assisted psychotherapy” – Tim Ferriss
- The average patient in the study suffered from PTSD for 17.8 YEARS before being treated and healed with MDMA
- “Most subjects received just two to three sessions of MDMA-assisted psychotherapy” – Tim Ferriss
- Taking MDMA releases the association of trauma to a negative memory and makes people feel safer when they recall that incident again
- “The next time that you remember the incident, you remember the incident with a different emotional tone and that can be encoded in new neural pathways in your brian” – Rick Doblin
- You need MDMA and therapy to get the most effective treatment for PTSD
- “It’s not really MDMA, it’s psychotherapy facilitated by MDMA” – Rick Doblin
- MDMA brings unconscious thoughts to the surface, but if you’re not prepared for that you could have a breakdown instead of a breakthrough
Intro
- Rick Doblin, PhD, (@rickdoblin) is the founder and executive director of the Multidisciplinary Association for Psychedelic Studies (MAPS)
- Host: Tim Ferriss (@tferriss)
Books Mentioned
- If you’re interested in learning more about psychedelics, Tim recommends reading PiHKAL (Phenethylamines I Have Known and Loved): A Chemical Love Story and TiHKAL (Tryptamines I Have Known and Loved): A Continuation by Alexander Shulgin and Ann Shulgin
- The books The Secret Chief: Conversations With a Pioneer of the Underground Psychedelic and The Secret Chief Revealed by Myron J. Stolaroff talk about the underground psychedelic movement
About MAPS
- From the mid-1970s to the ‘80s, about half a million doses of MDMA were legally used as a therapeutic drug by psychiatrists and psychotherapists
- Rick supported the 1980s movement to make MDMA a level three drug which would allow it to be used as a prescriptive medicine, but Drug Enforcement Agency (DEA) rejected that recommendation
- Rick founded MAPS (Multidisciplinary Association for Psychedelic Studies) as a non-profit organization in 1986 to raise awareness and understanding of psychedelic substance
- Rick supported the 1980s movement to make MDMA a level three drug which would allow it to be used as a prescriptive medicine, but Drug Enforcement Agency (DEA) rejected that recommendation
The History of MDMA
- What is MDMA?
- MDMA is a synthetic molecule and was invented in 1912 by Merck Pharmaceuticals
- In 1953, the US military was looking for mind-control drugs and tested a series of drugs, including MDMA, on animals
- MDMA is a synthetic molecule and was invented in 1912 by Merck Pharmaceuticals
- A chemist named Sasha Shulgin independently synthesized MDMA
- If you’re interested in learning more about psychedelics, Tim recommends reading PiHKAL (Phenethylamines I Have Known and Loved): A Chemical Love Story and TiHKAL (Tryptamines I Have Known and Loved): A Continuation by Alexander Shulgin and Ann Shulgin
- The books The Secret Chief: Conversations With a Pioneer of the Underground Psychedelic and The Secret Chief Revealed by Myron J. Stolaroff talk about the underground psychedelic movement
- Around the mid-1970s, Leo Zeff helped train psychologists and psychotherapists in the use of MDMA
- “It’s there that its therapeutic potential was both discovered and expanded on” – Rick Doblin
- Around the mid-1970s, Leo Zeff helped train psychologists and psychotherapists in the use of MDMA
- “What a lot of people don’t realize is that MDMA was a therapy drug before it became a party drug under the name ecstasy” – Rick Doblin
- Benefits of MDMA:
- People are able to better express themselves
- People become better listeners
- It’s used quite a lot in couples therapy
- “It’s got an enormous wide range of applications and it can be used for post-traumatic stress disorder” – Rick Doblin
How MDMA Treats PTSD
- Who is Jon Lubecky?
- He’s a veteran who served in Iraq, suffered from PTSD, and attempted suicide on multiple occasions
- Out of desperation, he volunteered from an MDMA study. MDMA treated his PTSD and greatly improved his life.
- Now he works as a consultant for MAPS
- Out of desperation, he volunteered from an MDMA study. MDMA treated his PTSD and greatly improved his life.
- He’s a veteran who served in Iraq, suffered from PTSD, and attempted suicide on multiple occasions
- In one study, 56% of patients no longer required treatment for PTSD after two months of MDMA-assisted psychotherapy
- After 12 months, 68% no longer had PTSD
- “Most subjects received just two to three sessions of MDMA-assisted psychotherapy” – Tim Ferriss
- The average patient in the study suffered from PTSD for 17.8 YEARS before being treated and healed with MDMA
- “Most subjects received just two to three sessions of MDMA-assisted psychotherapy” – Tim Ferriss
- After 12 months, 68% no longer had PTSD
- When you take MDMA, you’re actually rewiring your brain
- When mice take MDMA, their brains release oxytocin which helps stimulate new neural connections in pro-social areas of the brain
- In humans, taking MDMA releases association of trauma to a negative memory and makes people safer when they recall that incident again
- “The next time that you remember the incident, you remember the incident with a different emotional tone and that can be encoded in new neural pathways in your brain” – Rick Doblin
- You need MDMA and therapy to get the most effective treatment for PTSD
- “It’s not really MDMA, it’s psychotherapy facilitated by MDMA” – Rick Doblin
Raising $10 Million for MAPS
- Tim Ferriss and several friends have come together to raise $10 million (Tim put in $1 million of his own money) towards MAPS’s goal of $30 million
- If you’d like to get involved, you can donate to MAPS here
- “If you’re looking for a very high leverage asymmetric payoff possibility, this is an excellent place to put money and I do think that a dollar now is worth ten dollars, five years from now” – Tim Ferriss
- If you’d like to get involved, you can donate to MAPS here
- The funds will push MDMA to get approval from the FDA in the US, the Israeli Ministry of Health, and health authorities in Canada
- MAPS currently has 15 phase-three sites
- 11 in the US
- 2 in Israel
- 2 in Canada
- MAPS currently has 15 phase-three sites
- $30 million may seem like a lot of money, but pharmaceuticals companies usually spend hundreds of millions or billions of dollars to get a drug approved
- “In fact, the latest numbers is roughly $2 billion to make a drug into a medicine” – Rick Doblin
- Once MDMA is a legal drug, MAPS will sell it as a public-benefit corporation and profits will get reinvested into the mission of MAPS
- If MDMA, it will likely open up the rest of the psychedelic field up to research
Additional Notes
- MDMA and MDA are similar, but MDMA is more gentle
- A high MDA dosage can cause heart problems and even death
- MDMA brings unconscious thoughts to the surface, but if you’re not prepared for that you could have a breakdown instead of a breakthrough
- For decades, studying MDMA and psychedelics was considered career suicide for scientists
- About 20 veterans commit suicide every day
- About 50,000 people commit suicide every year in the US alone
- “And we need to help them” – Rick Doblin
- About 50,000 people commit suicide every year in the US alone