May 4, 2020
Psychedelics | Dennis McKenna on The Joe Rogan Experience #1133
Key Takeaways
- Religion has distanced us from nature even though we are part of it
- “Christianity and Judaism and Islam to a certain extent have poisoned the Western mind and encouraged our separation from nature and basically propagated this idea that we’re separated from nature and we own it and we have every right to dominate it” – Dennis McKenna
- “We have to rediscover this indigenous perspective that we are part of nature…we should be symbiotic with nature”
- “Christianity and Judaism and Islam to a certain extent have poisoned the Western mind and encouraged our separation from nature and basically propagated this idea that we’re separated from nature and we own it and we have every right to dominate it” – Dennis McKenna
- “It really is a shame that we need an illness to treat before you allow someone to have this potentially mind-expanding experience…it’s almost like not allowing people to take vitamins unless they’re really sick” – Joe Rogan
- “DMT is extremely common in nature…I say nature is drenched in DMT. From the animal level to the plant level to fungi level, you find these things everywhere.” – Dennis McKenna
- “In order to have a career in science you have to make these sacrifices, you have to keep to yourself things you know to be true, that you can’t really talk about because your colleagues will look askance at you and science is a very medieval institution in that respect” – Dennis McKenna
- Fortunately, things are starting to change and more people are willing to do research in psychedelics
- “Science is again slowly opening up to psychedelics”
- Fortunately, things are starting to change and more people are willing to do research in psychedelics
- Joe is a huge fan of sensory deprivation tanks. He got his from Float Lab
- “It’s really great for working out ideas. It’s like one of the best environments in the world for working on a thought because there’s no input…you’re just in total silence, total darkness…and in the absence of this input, your brain has more resources.” – Joe Rogan
Intro
- Dennis McKenna (@DennisMcKenna4) is an American ethnopharmacologist, research pharmacognosist, lecturer and author
- Dennis is the author of:
- Host: Joe Rogan (@joerogan)
Books Mentioned
- At age 17, Dennis stumbled upon the book Ethnopharmacologic Search for Psychoactive Drugs
- It had a huge influence on him which is why he included a copy of it in his most recent book Ethnopharmacologic Search for Psychoactive Drugs (Vol. 1 & 2): 50 Years of Research
- Around the same time, Dennis’s brother, Terence McKenna, gave him a copy of the book The Teachings of Don Juan: A Yaqui Way of Knowledge by Carlos Castaneda
- Joe and Dennis are both big fans of Michael Pollan’s book How to Change Your Mind: What the New Science of Psychedelics Teaches Us About Consciousness, Dying, Addiction, Depression, and Transcendence
- Dennis is a fan of Simon Powell and his books The Psilocybin Solution and Magic Mushroom Explorer
- Dennis found the book The Super Natural: A New Vision of the Unexplained by Whitley Strieber and Jeffrey J. Kripal, fascinating
- One author shares his supernatural experiences while the other author, a professor of religion, explains the meaning behind the events
- When talking about zombies, Dennis references the book The Serpent and the Rainbow: A Harvard Scientist’s Astonishing Journey into the Secret Societies of Haitian Voodoo, Zombies, and Magic by Wade Davis
- Dennis also recommends Wade’s book One River: Explorations and Discoveries in the Amazon Rain Forest and suggests Joe should have him on the podcast
About Dennis McKenna
- At age 17, Dennis stumbled upon the book Ethnopharmacologic Search for Psychoactive Drugs
- It had a huge influence on him which is why he included a copy of it in his most recent book Ethnopharmacologic Search for Psychoactive Drugs (Vol. 1 & 2): 50 Years of Research
- Around the same time, Dennis’s brother, Terence McKenna, gave him a copy of the book The Teachings of Don Juan: A Yaqui Way of Knowledge by Carlos Castaneda
- After reading both books, Dennis became interested in a career in researching psychedelics
- “Wow man, I can get paid to get stoned” – Dennis McKenna
- After reading both books, Dennis became interested in a career in researching psychedelics
- Around the same time, Dennis’s brother, Terence McKenna, gave him a copy of the book The Teachings of Don Juan: A Yaqui Way of Knowledge by Carlos Castaneda
- It had a huge influence on him which is why he included a copy of it in his most recent book Ethnopharmacologic Search for Psychoactive Drugs (Vol. 1 & 2): 50 Years of Research
Religion, Nature, and Psychedelics
- Many people take ayahuasca because they crave a spiritual experience
- “People crave spiritually meaning experiences and our culture needs it more than ever” – Dennis McKenna
- Religion has distanced us from nature even though we are part of it
- “Christianity and Judaism and Islam to a certain extent have poisoned the Western mind and encouraged our separation from nature and basically propagated this idea that we’re separated from nature and we own it and we have every right to dominate it” – Dennis McKenna
- “We have to rediscover this indigenous perspective that we are part of nature…we should be symbiotic with nature”
- “Christianity and Judaism and Islam to a certain extent have poisoned the Western mind and encouraged our separation from nature and basically propagated this idea that we’re separated from nature and we own it and we have every right to dominate it” – Dennis McKenna
- Humans need to reconnect with nature and help save it
- “Wake up you monkeys, you’re wrecking this place” – Dennis McKenna
- “Psychedelics are a catalyst for waking up and so once people have that experience then their perspective is changed”
- “Wake up you monkeys, you’re wrecking this place” – Dennis McKenna
How Psychedelics Open Your Mind
- Psychedelics often open up your mind to new perspectives
- “Psychedelics do give us the chance to rethink a lot of things” – Dennis McKenna
- Dennis considers psychedelics to be scientific instruments that give you an opportunity to look at things in a novel way
- Your brain tends to filter a lot of information but when you take psychedelics, that filter is lowered
- “Many scientists have said that their insights have come from their psychedelic experiences” – Dennis McKenna
- E.g: Steve Jobs and Kary Mullis both took psychedelics
- “Many scientists have said that their insights have come from their psychedelic experiences” – Dennis McKenna
- Your brain tends to filter a lot of information but when you take psychedelics, that filter is lowered
- Psychedelics are well suited to treat PTSD and trauma
- “I think these psychedelics are medicines for the soul” – Dennis McKenna
- Psychedelics activate neuroplasticity
- “It actually reorganizes connections in the brain, you know psilocybin does this and presumably the others do too”
- Psychedelics activate neuroplasticity
- “I think these psychedelics are medicines for the soul” – Dennis McKenna
Ayahuasca & DMT
- It’s harder to synthesize ayahuasca than MDMA, making it more difficult to study its effects in a phase one clinical trial
- Dennis has been hosting ayahuasca retreats in Peru since 2012–there’s no restriction of ayahuasca use in Peru
- Dennis would like to open up a center in Peru to do proper research on ayahuasca and other psychedelics
- Dennis has been hosting ayahuasca retreats in Peru since 2012–there’s no restriction of ayahuasca use in Peru
- “It really is a shame that we need an illness to treat before you allow someone to have this potentially mind-expanding experience…it’s almost like not allowing people to take vitamins unless they’re really sick” – Joe Rogan
- “DMT is extremely common in nature…I say nature is drenched in DMT. From the animal level to the plant level to fungi level, you find these things everywhere.” – Dennis McKenna
- Dennis believes that there are thousands of plant species with DMT but that no one is willing to fund this kind of research
- “Probably all plants have DMT to some extent”
- Dennis believes that there are thousands of plant species with DMT but that no one is willing to fund this kind of research
Books About Psychedelics, The Supernatural & More
- Joe and Dennis are both big fans of Michael Pollan’s book How to Change Your Mind: What the New Science of Psychedelics Teaches Us About Consciousness, Dying, Addiction, Depression, and Transcendence
- Dennis is a fan of Simon Powell and his books The Psilocybin Solution and Magic Mushroom Explorer
- Dennis found the book The Super Natural: A New Vision of the Unexplained by Whitley Strieber and Jeffrey J. Kripal, fascinating
- One author shares his supernatural experiences while the other author, a professor of religion, explains the meaning behind the events
- When talking about zombies, Dennis references the book The Serpent and the Rainbow: A Harvard Scientist’s Astonishing Journey into the Secret Societies of Haitian Voodoo, Zombies, and Magic by Wade Davis
- Dennis also recommends Wade’s book One River: Explorations and Discoveries in the Amazon Rain Forest and suggests Joe should have him on the podcast
Lack Of Research In Psychedelics
- Research on psychedelics has essentially been repressed for 40 years because of the laws that President Nixon passed
- For a long time, considering a career in psychedelic research was considered career suicide
- Even today, researching psychedelics is looked down upon by much of the scientific community
- “In order to have a career in science you have to make these sacrifices, you have to keep to yourself things you know to be true, that you can’t really talk about because your colleagues will look askance at you and science is a very medieval institution in that respect” – Dennis McKenna
- Fortunately, things are starting to change and more people are willing to do research in that area
- “Science is again slowly opening up to psychedelics”
- Fortunately, things are starting to change and more people are willing to do research in that area
- “In order to have a career in science you have to make these sacrifices, you have to keep to yourself things you know to be true, that you can’t really talk about because your colleagues will look askance at you and science is a very medieval institution in that respect” – Dennis McKenna
Devices That Stimulate Psychedelics
- There’s a lamp called the Anja Light which Dennis says provides users a sub-threshold DMT experience
- Joe is a huge fan of sensory deprivation tanks. He got his from Float Lab
- “It’s really great for working out ideas. It’s like one of the best environments in the world for working on a thought because there’s no input…you’re just in total silence, total darkness…and in the absence of this input, your brain has more resources.” – Joe Rogan
- Joe enjoys having edible brownies and then going into the tank
- “It’s really great for working out ideas. It’s like one of the best environments in the world for working on a thought because there’s no input…you’re just in total silence, total darkness…and in the absence of this input, your brain has more resources.” – Joe Rogan
The Simulation Is Coming
- Joe believes it’s only a matter of time until humans discover the simulation or create it
- Technology keeps improving; devices are getting more compact and play an increasing integeral part of our lives.
Dennis Talks Aliens
- In a typical alien encounter, there’s usually a siren or call that attracts you
- There’s also a transfer of information–the aliens share a special message with the person
- Sometimes the aliens also offer a gift
- There’s also a transfer of information–the aliens share a special message with the person
