#1757 – Dr. Robert Malone, MD | Joe Rogan Experience

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Key Takeaways

  • There are incentives in clinical trials to highlight the good stuff and bury the bad stuff
  • Hospitals are financially incentivized (by government funds) to diagnose COVID-19 patients, treat COVID-19 patients in hospitals, intubate, and declare the cause of death as COVID-19 – this is likely coming top-down from hospital administrators making money
  • The medical field is being destroyed worldwide by financial incentives muddying the water
  • There are reasons to not advocate for multiple doses of the vaccine: disruption of normal T-cell response, we don’t know how long side effects last, high zone tolerance, mismatch with the current strain of virus
  • FDA had the right and responsibility to ensure the safety and efficacy of vaccines; it is failing at these tasks
  • We should be able to have active discussions and explore various hypotheses – no matter which side you’re on, we need to recognize that there is unprecedented censorship around COVID-19
  • Omicron highlights: Omicron can break through vaccination, mild strain, symptoms usually lead to scratchy or sore throat (not respiratory like previous strains), has an extremely high reproductive coefficient – almost twice that of Delta, mortality of Omicron is extremely low if at all
  • Find a doctor that will administer early treatment!
  • “It’s hard for me to reconcile the behavior of the government and its public health decisions with the data.” – Dr. Robert Malone
  • The lack of early treatment is utterly unfathomable. Is it incompetence or more sinister, political motive?
  • People are losing faith in science, the government, medicine, the vaccine – what is the future of public health?
  • A large portion of society has decided that big pharma has their best interest at heart instead of money-making machines
  • “The real problem is we’re sick as a society and we have to heal ourselves. One of the things we have to do is come together – recreate social bonds, buy into integrity, human dignity, and the importance of community. That’s how we get out of this.” – Dr. Robert Malone
  • “There are two hills I’m willing to die on: one is stopping the jabs in children, and one is resisting the erosion of free speech.” – Dr. Robert Malone


Dr. Robert Malone, MD, is a physician with a background in molecular biology. He was at the forefront of mRNA vaccine development in the late 80s and holds ten patents related to mRNA vaccines. Dr. Malone is the Medical Director at The Unity Project, a group of organizations standing against mandated COVID vaccines for children. He is committed to finding ways to speak openly about COVID pandemic research and treatment.  

Dr. Malone has been banned from Twitter but you can find him on GETTR (non-censored Twitter alternative) @RobertMaloneMD.

Joe Rogan and Dr. Malone have a comprehensive discussion about COVID-19, censorship of speech, differences among strains, vaccinations, lack of early treatment, and much much more.  

Host: Joe Rogan (@joerogan)

Twitter & LinkedIn Ban

  • One day before this interview (12/30/21) Dr. Malone was banned from Twitter
  • Dr. Malone was an active voice throughout the pandemic sharing his experiences with the NIH, CDC, FDA, and big pharma
  • He was likely banned for promoting information that may have stirred “vaccine hesitancy” – but no reason was given, and he was not told the exact tweet that led to the ban
  • “People should think for themselves, and I try really hard to give people the information and help them to think, not tell them what to think.” – Dr. Robert Malone
  • “If it’s not ok for me to be part of the conversation, even though I’m pointing out scientific facts that may be inconvenient, then who is? Who can be allowed?” – Dr. Robert Malone
  • We’re walking a fine line with regard to the fundamental constitutional principles regarding freedom of speech
  • Dr. Malone was also banned from LinkedIn after pointing out that the Chairman of the Board for Thomson Reuters also sits on the board of Pfizer
    • Thomson Reuters is also the “fact-checker” of Twitter COVID-19 information…
  • This is not just a U.S. problem, there is a worldwide attempt to control information by certain organizations
  • There seems to be a silencing and attempt to revoke the license of physicians prescribing early treatment, speaking out against dirty data, and just plain asking questions against the grain
  • Hospitals and Hospitalists are attacking outside physicians – maybe a result of following the money?

Vaccine Policy

  • Note: Dr. Malone has taken two doses of the COVID-19 vaccine
  • Natural immunity is 6-13x is superior to vaccine-induced immunity
  • Everyone should be informed of both benefits and risks of vaccine uptake – unfortunately, the policy right now is that no discussion of risks is allowed because it is feared to elicit vaccine hesitancy
  • The crux of Dr. Malone’s thought is that people should have freedom of choice and vaccines should be reserved for people that need them most and not imposed on every single person (i.e., those with no risk)
  • The very notion of informed consent is being blocked
  • If you had COVID, you have a higher risk of adverse events from the vaccination  

Nuances Of Spike Protein

  • Spike protein: this is what causes fusion between the virus and the cell, enabling the virus to infect the cell  
  • Spike protein in the vaccine is different than spike protein in COVID-19
  • The vaccine uses pre-fusion confirmation which will not trigger cell fusion after binding but can turn on ACE-2 receptor
  • The narrative is spike protein in the vaccine was engineered to be non-toxic, but:
    • It is more immunogenic, not necessarily less toxic
    • The pharmaceutical companies did not have a burden to prove spike protein in the vaccines is safe

Myocarditis & Other Reported Side Effects Of Vaccination

  • There are no long term studies assessing post-vaccine myocarditis in children because there can’t be – we haven’t had vaccinated youth long enough to thoroughly assess
  • There is clearly an androgen component to the virus and the vaccine
  • The narrative is myocarditis is mild and not too bad but the incidence rate of myocarditis in young boys requiring hospitalization is 1 in 2700
  • General (across population) incidence rate of death after myocarditis is around 27%
  • Some women have reported changes to menstruation after vaccination: discontinuation of their period, bleeding after menopause, change in cycle length
  • Early on data in Pfizer did not include standard studies done on birth defects, teratogenesis, reproductive toxicology, genotoxicity
  • One Pfizer study showed that lipid particles (not RNA) from vaccine spread through the body and don’t stay in the arm – traveling specifically to ovaries and bone marrows
  • An organization of Hasidic Jews came out in ruling that young women should not get vaccinated because it was a threat to reproduction
  • Spike from vaccine and COVID-19 can trigger brain inflammation and induce Alzheimer’s-like symptoms  
  • The effects of long COVID and vaccine side effects are strikingly similar
  • We’re seeing a rise in induced latent virus reactivation: shingles, Epstein barre, cytomegalovirus
  • Early data seeing abnormalities in T-cell functions and changes in T-cell signaling shortly after vaccination
  • Anecdotal vaccine enhanced infection: there are some early signs out of Denmark that vaccinated people are actually more likely to be infected with Omicron than nonvaccinated – but of course, we have to consider risk confounding variables (e.g., maybe vaccinated people are engaging in riskier behaviors, etc.) – again, this is beginning to be understudied so no official numbers or data out in peer-reviewed publications

Controversy Around COVID-19 Treatment

  • Dr. Malone had COVID-19 February 2020 and thought he was going to die and treated himself with a drug combination he studied on his own – he had long COVID as well
  • It is likely that upwards of 500,000 deaths could have been prevented with early treatment
  • It seems there’s been an intentional push to avoid early treatment and prevent administration of hydroxychloroquine and ivermectin by the FDA and other agencies
  • There was a coordinated push to only administer treatment in the hospital, but we know it’s too late by then – early treatment is key
  • Hydroxychloroquine is a well-known antiviral and safe – actually, one of the few that’s safe to administer in pregnancy
  • Both ivermectin and hydroxychloroquine are on the WHO list of essential medications and among the safest around
  • It’s inexplicable that Merck came out saying ivermectin is not safe
  • “There’s clearly a concerted effort on the part of multiple players in the pharmaceutical industry in accordance with the federal government to kill ivermectin as a potential treatment strategy.” – Dr. Robert Malone
  • The Chinese government was successfully using hydroxychloroquine for treatment
  • India was getting crushed by COVID until it worked with WHO to develop an early treatment package – the contents of which have not been disclosed
    • Supposedly there was a meeting between PM Modi and the Biden Administration, but no treatment guidelines came from it
  • There is a financial incentive to diagnose someone with COVID-19 and an additional governmental bonus if someone is hospitalized with COVID-19, put on a ventilator, and if the cause of death is COVID-19
  • By definition, for anyone who dies of anything but tests positive for COVID-19 – COVID-19 is declared the cause of death

Omicron Strain

  • A possible reason we’re seeing so much infection of Omicron among vaccinated people right now is that prior exposure to an antigen that is closely related to a new antigen changes your body’s natural response
  • Omicron paradox: Omicron is more infectious and replicates at higher levels but less pathogenic
  • Omicron symptoms are more of a sore throat runny nose; Alpha & Delta infect deep lung and come with chest burning, loss of taste and smell
  • Delta is still going around and more likely hospitalized cases; Omicron is mild
  • Mortality of Omicron is extremely low if at all – remember, the association is not causation
  • Reproductive coefficient (R0): R0 of original Wuhan strain is 3 meaning if you contract Omicron, you will likely infect three other people; R0 of Delta is 5-6; R0 of Omicron is 7-10 – extremely high
    • R0 assumes not masking, not distancing, not taking any precautions
  • The high reproduction coefficient of Omicron means “we are all going to get infected” – Dr. Robert Malone

Emergency Use Authorizations & Monoclonal Antibodies

  • Emergency use authorizations (EUA) are based on policy determinations in a state of emergency – but it’s been two years since the evaluation
  • Monoclonal antibodies have largely been pulled by the government
  • Monoclonal antibodies are a less effective treatment against Omicron but still valuable for other strains
  • Tough to swallow but a possible theory: if there are financial incentives to keep the state of emergency, then you wouldn’t actually want to see people get better and it would explain the withholding of early treatment
  • The lack of early treatment is mind-blowing – is it gross incompetence or something more sinister?

Big Pharma

  • Based on fear, a large portion of society has decided that big pharma has their best interest at heart instead of money-making machines
  • “Pfizer is one of the most criminal pharmaceutical organizations in the world based on their past legal history and fines.”  – Dr. Robert Malone
  • Pharmaceutical companies do not have the moral compass you would hope for – their interest is the return on investment

“Mass Formation Psychosis”

  • One-third of the population seems completely hypnotized and under the spell of whatever they’re told by the government and main media
  • When you have a society de-coupled from each other, is surrounded by things that don’t make sense, and attention is focused on some point – they can be led anywhere
  • The psychology behind mass formation psychosis: following any leads who says, “I and I alone can fix this problem” – people who question this are “other” and should be excluded
  • All of the events take place and create a perfect storm where we openly point to the “others” and are extremely polarized

Censorship & Effects Of Social Media And Media

  • The only to know if someone’s views are valid is to talk to them, have a discussion, and understand if there’s any merit – we’re no longer allowing the platform to do that
  • There’s a heightened influence of social media on society now more than ever
  • There seems to be a strong push to coordinate messaging across all tech, social media, news outlets, etc.
  • Trusted news initiative: BBC announced a tying of big tech and big media to protect democracy and voting integrity from “hostile offshore players” (i.e., Russia)
  • The same mechanisms of unity used by the trusted news initiative were abused by big pharma to shutdown anti-vaxxer discussions and keep everyone in line with the WHO, NIH and CDC messaging
  • People with views contrary to the uniform messaging around COVID-19 are not allowed to participate in public discussion
  • Early on in the pandemic, we saw censorship of people who opposed lockdowns as potentially eliciting more harm than benefit

Approaches To Lockdowns Around The World

  • Sweden famously allowed its residents to proceed with life and let the virus take its course, and had fewer deaths and adverse effects on school-age children who suffered from distance learning
    • Caveat: of course, the lifestyle and geography of Sweden is less dense than major U.S. cities
  • Israel (who is on contract with Pfizer alone) is testing a fourth dose of the vaccine and still seeing high rates of hospitalization
    • It should be noted the Israeli population is older than surrounding countries
  • The death rate has been very low in central Africa – possibly confounded by the fact that there is regular use of ivermectin and hydroxychloroquine for parasites
  • There’s a lot of moving parts to approaches and many confounding variables – the cleanest data set to observe trends is all-cause mortality
  • Just because someone dies within days of receiving the vaccines, doesn’t mean it’s vaccine caused – but it is vaccine correlated
  • To be part of ending COVID-19 vaccine mandates for healthy children, check out: The Unity Project
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Notes By Maryann

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