#1780 – Maajid Nawaz | Joe Rogan Experience

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Key Takeaways

  • “When there’s no such thing as truth, you can’t define reality. When you can’t define reality, the only thing that matters is power.” – Maajid Nawaz
    • Without a grounded reality, you have no premise to scrutinize the government
    • There is a war over information to define reality
    • “Do not succumb to whatever the bureaucracy is telling you, but ask questions where things don’t make sense” – Maajid Nawaz
  • “You can’t go from a democracy to a papers please society within one election term without having any consultation with the public, without a proper and informed debate on how this will change the culture of our society.” – Maajid Nawaz
    • Is it a true democracy when these societal-changing actions are enacted so quickly that we are helplessly left to abide without a say?
  • Mission Creep: the gradual broadening of the original objectives of a mission or organization
    • Emergencies are almost always extorted as a power grab
    • Governments across the world have enacted temporary powers in response to an emergency–only to never remove them (Maajid was held in an Egyptian jail for four years for a temporary law that lasted 20 years)
  • The Covid vaccine mandate conversation creates a fundamental shift in our relationship with the government
  • The Banality of Evil: Good people can do evil things and they don’t even realize they are doing them
    • Boiling Frog apologue: A frog placed in boiling water will jump out. A frog in water that is incrementally increasing in temperature will not realize its danger and boil to death.
  • Our financial freedom is directly tied to the battle of centralization vs decentralization
    • Central banking digital currencies will be programmable and be able to monitor and regulate your purchasing behavior–you will own vouchers, not money
    • World Economic Forum are very transparent about their goal to centralize control of all your financial decisions through a digital ID system

Intro

  • Maajid Nawaz (@MaajidNawaz) is a former Islamist who has converted to a counter-extremist activist. Maajid is also a public speaker and author of his autobiography, Radical: My Journey out of Islamist Extremism. Joe & Maajid discuss the potentially drastic implications that are looming for society, topics include Covid-19, the definition of reality, military conflict, financial systems, and more.
  • Host: Joe Rogan (@joerogan)

Who is Maajid Nawaz? His Story

  • Maajid was born in Essex, United Kingdom – the first generation of Muslims born and raised in the West as British citizens
    • Long hard history of Muslim integration in western culture – Maajid compares it to the historical arc of racism and violence that African Americans had to endure in the United States
    • In the early 1990s, the Genocide in Bosnia was occurring against Muslims in the region. The U.N. military didn’t have the mandate to intervene and let it happen. British Muslims feared for their safety, distrust in society grew immensely.
  • Maajid decided to join a revolutionary Islamist organization at age 16
    • Their purpose was not conventional terrorism (bombing, violence) but to recruit army officers in Muslim majority countries and instigate military coups
    • Wanted to expose the failures of international institutions (genocide in Bosnia) as an opportunity to infiltrate governments
    • Used psychological assaults on the assumptions people took for granted – demonstrate how assumptions do not stand up in the real world and solutions are required
  • Maajid Nawaz’s continued story:
    • After 9/11, even though his organization was not violent or involved, Maajid and other Islamists were captured, tortured, and interrogated by the Egyptian regime
    • Was then charged with membership of an illegal organization and propagation of information. After the assassination of President Anwar Sadat, Egypt enforced a temporary state of emergency (that ended up lasting over 20 years) that legally restricted your ability to express certain ideas. Sound familiar?
    • “Prisoner of Conscience” by Amnesty was the campaign for Maajid to be released from prison. He still served his full four years but this was his first exposure to society not motivated by hate and violence–it really impacted his perspective.
    • He realized he was living a contradiction and decided to resign from the Islamic group in favor of a more ‘traditional and organic understanding of his heritage
    • Maajid co-founded Quilliam which served as a British think tank around counter-extremism

The Machine is Broken

  • If you’re fighting for your values, you can’t contradict your values in the same breath
  • Maajid argues that the machine is broken, we are fighting ideological evil with hypocritical evil, here are some examples:
    • Maajid references countless examples of military tactics and techniques that contradict U.S. values
    • Maajid references the hypocrisy in Guantanamo Bay–incarcerating people for decades with no charges
    • Maajid then references the atrocities of hundreds of children being born into prisons in Syria
      • “We’ve moved from arbitrarily interning Jihadis, to arbitrarily interning their wives and children, to now arbitrarily interning anyone who is undocumented in these camps” – Maajid Nawaz
      • This is a clear and dangerous example of mission creep
  • “This is not the kind of world I want to see going forward. I’m trying to work in the machine and say your behavior is making things worse–power and brute force does not fix your problems.” – Maajid Nawaz
  • Maajid shut down Quilliam due to the weaponization of language–especially the word extremism. We use it for political manipulation rather than focusing on real threats.

Mission Creep

  • Mission Creep: the gradual broadening of the original objectives of a mission or organization
    • Emergencies are almost always extorted as a power grab
    • The Patriot and Coronavirus acts are examples of introducing permanent harmful policy during an emergency–even though it’s advertised as temporary

Vaccine Mandate Side Effects: Society

  • The Covid vaccine mandate conversation creates a fundamental shift in our relationship with the government
  • “You can’t go from a democracy to a papers please society within one election term without having any consultation with the public, without a proper and informed debate on how this will change the culture of our society.” – Maajid Nawaz
    • Is it a true democracy when these societal-changing actions are enacted so quickly that we are helplessly left to abide without a say?
  • FYI: Maajid Nawaz is double vaccinated with Pfizer but the media calls him an anti-vaxxer
    • “This is how absurd these people are. You disagree with somebody and instead of trying to engage with the substance of your point, they want to throw a label at you and hope it sticks.” – Maajid Nawaz

The Banality of Evil

  • The Banality of Evil: analyzed and philosophized how everyday people became Nazis
    • Good people can do evil things and they don’t even realize they are doing them
    • Each incremental step is justified for a common good
    • You can have the best of intentions and still do evil
    • Boiling Frog apologue: A frog placed in boiling water will jump out. A frog in water incrementally increasing in temperature will not realize its danger and boil to death.

A War on Reality

  • There is a war over information that defines reality
    • “Whoever defines reality gets to win and in that context, Twitter is a weapon” – Maajid Nawaz
  • “When there’s no such thing as truth, you can’t define reality. When you can’t define reality, the only thing that matters is power.” – Maajid Nawaz
    • Without a grounded reality, you have no premise to scrutinize the government
    • Power will cease debate at every opportunity. Without proper debate, there is a lack of reason. Without reason, they can define reality any way they want.
    • “Do not succumb to whatever the bureaucracy is telling you, but ask questions where things don’t make sense” – Maajid Nawaz
    • Maajid references 1984 by George Orwell
  • The majority of folks are too busy trying to make a living that they can’t do their own research
    • You’re expected to forget what the media told you last time so they can slowly shift the goalposts

Central Banking Digital Currencies

  • Fiat currency is quickly becoming less valuable due to self-induced inflation – this could be a way of slowly integrating dangerous central digital currency systems. Destroy the current system so that we need a new one.
  • Central banking digital currencies will be programmable and potentially be able to monitor and regulate your purchasing behavior
    • “It’s not money, it’s vouchers” – Maajid Nawaz
  • Our financial freedom is directly tied to the battle of centralization vs decentralization

Iraq War

  • Invading Iraq was never about bringing democracy and definitely not about weapons of mass destruction (WMDs)
    • Maajid argues Colin Powell knew the Iraq WMD intelligence was a lie all along
    • David Kelly, one of the world’s top weapons inspectors, turned up dead after questioning/debunking the intelligence
  • “It’s easy to manufacturer consent around something that isn’t true for foreign policy purposes–it was done with Iraq”– Maajid Nawaz
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Notes By Drew Waterstreet

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