1747#– Dr. Peter A. McCullough | Joe Rogan Experience


Check out the Joe Rogan Experience episode page.

Key Takeaways

  • We are not attempting to treat COVID-19 at home to prevent hospitalizations and deaths as an outcome
  • Early treatment of COVID-19 is the key to survival because you take the edge off viral replication, reduce inflammation, and prevent thrombosis
  • 50-85% of COVID-19 deaths could have been avoided if we adopted early treatment
  • “The 800,000 deaths we have right now, I can tell you to a one they’ve received either no or inadequate early treatment.” – Dr. Peter A. McCullough
  • “We’ve had a giant loss of life…It seems to me early on there was an intentional, very comprehensive suppression of treatment in order to promote fear, suffering, isolation, hospitalization, and death. It seemed to be completely organized and intentional in order to create acceptance for and promote mass vaccination.” – Dr. Peter A. McCullough
  • If this was just about COVID (instead of power) we would’ve seen four pillars to the response: reduce the spread of infection, early treatment, improvement of hospital treatments with monthly updates from officials, vaccination (it has a role but not the silver bullet)
  • Reputable hospitals (e.g., Harvard) STILL do not have COVID-19 treatment protocols
  • Vaccines are a piece of the puzzle but are not treatment
  • While most people are going to be fine, the vaccine has caused death and adverse outcomes in organ systems for a large number of people with higher susceptibility
  • A young boy is more likely to be hospitalized of myocarditis post-vaccination than ever be hospitalized from COVID-19 respiratory illness
  • We are not transparent on vaccines: we should be regularly reviewing safety, revisiting efficacy, and creating a profile of who it is or isn’t recommended for
  • COVID-19 false narratives: asymptomatic spread & testing, you can get COVID repeatedly, take a vaccine every 6 months, you should still wear a mask if you had and recovered from COVID, vaccines are fully FDA approved
  • A person is not science! Science is ever-changing and evolves with better and more well-informed data
  • The idea that people in positions of authority are presenting information without a fair balance of risk versus benefit is a dangerous precedent


Dr. Peter A. McCullough, MD, MPH, (@P_McCulloughMD) is a board-certified cardiologist who has testified before committees of the U.S. and Texas Senate regarding the treatment of COVID-19 and management of the ongoing pandemic. Dr. McCullough studies the intersection between kidney and heart disease and is the most widely published author of scientific papers in his field.

Joe Rogan and Dr. McCullough have a comprehensive discussion about COVID-19, the controversy of hydroxychloroquine, vaccination, and much much more.  

Host: Joe Rogan (@joerogan)

Important note: There are many study citations in this episode. For any cited papers with fees or restrictions, use Sci-Hub for free access.

Fear Of COVID Among Medical Professionals

  • Challenging each other and asking tough questions was the norm in academic medicine prior to COVID
  • Early in the pandemic, no one knew what to do – there was no plan in place to treat COVID-19 patients at home and prevent hospitalizations
  • “Doctors for the first time in their lives felt that they could get the disease themselves if they saw and treated [COVID] patients.” – Dr. Peter A. McCullough
  • The focus became on how to protect doctors (e.g., PPE, air filtration, etc.) instead of how to treat patients
  • There are only about 500 doctors in the U.S. who are actually treating COVID-19 properly without fear  
  • Note: the most effective contagion control is using oronasal viral cytotherapy decontamination; the airtime and focus shouldn’t have been on masks

First Attempts At Treatment Of COVID-19

  • No treatment protocols emerged until McCullough’s paper was released in August 2020 which triggered the release of the home treatment guide by the Association of American Physicians and Surgeons (AAPS)
  • There was insufficient time for large scale randomized clinical trials which take 2-4 years: this was a mass casualty event that required faster paced studies
  • Ground rules of early studies: signal of benefit & acceptable safety
  • It was clear the virus was always going to require a cocktail to treat (similar to HIV) because of the three major components (1) viral replication, (2) cytokine storm or inflammation, (3) thrombosis

Villanization Of Hydroxychloroquine

  • Hydroxychloroquine was the most promising treatment when used early with a low toxicity rate
  • Evidence of the efficacy of hydroxychloroquine for SARS-CoV-1 date back to 2006
  • The U.S. and other countries had the right idea to stockpile hydroxychloroquine early on in the pandemic
  • Early in the pandemic, AAPS sued the federal government to release the stockpile of hydroxychloroquine
  • There seemed to be a collusion of the FDA and federal government to prevent the release of hydroxychloroquine
  • Throughout the world (U.S., Brazil, Australia, Europe, Africa, China), there started to be stories of governments making it nearly impossible for doctors to access hydroxychloroquine
  • The backlash against hydroxychloroquine was extreme – the main production plant outside Taipei was mysteriously burned down
  • Emergency use authorization was a previously unused mechanism
  • The use of hydroxychloroquine was restricted to in-patient use – but as we now know, COVID treatments must be started early in diagnosis before people are too far gone
  • NIH trials of in-patient hydroxychloroquine use yielded neutral results (no harm, no benefit) but were administered late, underpowered, and never reviewed
  • “We’ve based the entire house on hydroxychloroquine on two placebo-controlled, small in-patient trials that didn’t have sufficient power to see an effect if indeed it was there.” – Dr. Peter A. McCullough
  • In June 2020, FDA said do not use hydroxychloroquine to treat COVID-19 – full stop – never reviewed data
  • There was gross academic incompetence – but a trend that academia was not receptive to treatment even amongst the top scientific journals and universities (Harvard University paper published in Lancet; since retracted)
  • It became clear that the goal was to vaccinate our way of out the pandemic with little to no regard given to any other treatment
  • “The 800,000 deaths we have right now, I can tell you to a one they’ve received either no or inadequate early treatment.” – Dr. Peter A. McCullough
  • Read more about the efficacy of early treatment:
  • Read more about the controversial path of hydroxychloroquine: Regarding: “Hydroxychloroquine: A Comprehensive Review And Its Controversial Role In Coronavirus Disease 2019” by Peter A. McCullough

Monoclonal Antibodies

  • There is a lack of transparency about monoclonal antibodies: the U.S. has reportedly purchased 100 million doses with another 500 million on order, but they are still hard to find
  • The monoclonal antibodies were granted emergency authorization before the vaccine with impressive results
  • At least one study has shown that if you prophylactically take monoclonal antibodies in the presence of others with COVID, you will reduce your risk of getting COVID
  • Monoclonal antibodies are safe and effective in vaccinated or unvaccinated individuals – not everything that came out of the pandemic warped speed was bad
  • Early treatment is key! Monoclonal antibodies are not administered once you are inpatient (though they should be)

Brief Notes About Ivermectin

  • Ivermectin is widely distributed in other places with some efficacy
  • It’s the first-line treatment in Japan & attributed to flattening the curves in Mexico, Peru, India
  • Overall ivermectin is widely used, safe & effective
  • The trickiest thing about ivermectin is dosing (as opposed to hydroxychloroquine which is more stable)

Suppressing Treatment To Promote Vaccine Uptake

  • “We’ve had a giant loss of life…It seems to me early on there was an intentional, very comprehensive suppression of treatment in order to promote fear, suffering, isolation, hospitalization, and death. It seemed to be completely organized and intentional in order to create acceptance for and promote mass vaccination.” – Dr. Peter A. McCullough
  • There is evidence of extreme collusion on the part of Pfizer, Moderna, NIH, and many more “public service” agencies
  • Moderna was working on the vaccine before the virus ever came out of the lab
  • A Johns Hopkins 2017 symposium called the SPARS Pandemic outlined that we would face a coronavirus related to MRSA and SARS that would devastate the United States, shut down cities, induce confusion, and railroad people into mass vaccination  
  • The average death certificate takes 6 weeks to produce – how did the media get numbers so quickly? At some point, we essentially had a COVID death scoreboard
  • The number of COVID-19 deaths and testing has been padded to some degree: deaths padded by underlying factors that contributed more to death than the COVID; testing from duplicates
  • Check out: “COVID-19 and the Global Predators: We Are the Prey” by Peter Roger Breggin & Giner Ross Breggin – this book has thousands of citations as to how this was coordinated and planned

The So-Called “Mass Formation Psychosis”

  • It’s clear there are a lot of people not acting well and unable to have normal conversations and discussions about COVID-19
  • Mass formation psychosis: group think that has developed so strong, it leads to something horrific (such as mass suicides in religion, walking into gas chambers in Germany, etc.)
  • Key components of mass formation psychosis: (1) period of isolation (lockdowns); (2) withdrawal of things taken away people used to enjoy; (3) incessant free-lowing anxiety (constant news of deaths, tally, spread); (4) must be a single solution offered by an entity in authority (vaccination)
  • In mass formation psychosis, it doesn’t matter the absurdity of the solution
  • People were so far in the trenches, they didn’t want to accept the research (read more here and here) that COVID-19 was not spread asymptomatically – it’s only spread from sick person to susceptible person
  • Check out: “The United States of Fear” by Tom Engelhardt

COVID-19 Vaccines & Efficacy

  • (For the record, Dr. McCullough believes in vaccination and is vaccinated, but it is not a treatment)
  • Early vaccine trials aren’t a great profile of the population because many were staying home or people who were cautious at the time (that’s why we’re seeing breakthrough cases)
  • Vaccine studies are confounded by the fact that healthy people take the vaccine, less healthy people don’t take the vaccine – CDC publication
  • The vaccine is associated with a reduction in minimal absolute risk reduction of COVID-19 deaths of people over 65 – read the full study
  • September 2021 marks the 6-month anniversary when people first got their vaccine & efficacy took a nosedive – in large part because it seems the delta variant is resistant to the vaccine
  • An example of survival rates: as a U.S. veteran over age 65, was 87% among vaccinated and 78% among unvaccinated
  • Read more about vaccine efficacy and longevity – “Effectiveness Of Heterologous Chadox1 nCoV-19 And mRNA Prime-Boost Vaccination Against Symptomatic Covid-19 Infection In Sweden: A Nationwide Cohort Study” by Nordström et. al.
    • When looking at outcome as symptomatic COVID-19 infection: Pfizer starts at 92% efficacy and drops off to 23% after six months; Moderna starts at 96% and drops to 69% at six months
  • We worry about the immunocompromised people the most but those are also the ones that don’t get the highest benefit from the vaccine
  • The downside to vaccines: there have been 18,000 deaths and adverse outcomes based on the Vaccine Adverse Reporting System (which is notoriously underreported) certified by CDC – but the vaccine is not being reviewed
    • Vaccine-related deaths are likely in those who can’t handle the dangers of the spike protein and occurring in the very high-risk people we are trying to protect
  • Boosters: it’s worrisome to start vaccinating every 6 months because the spike protein takes 12-15 months to clear so will always be in the body
  • The vaccines are to protect yourself – no research can state it protects others from getting COIVD-19
  • When the word got out that people died after the vaccine, people stopped taking it as readily
  • One of the first vaccines trialed in Australia turned people HIV positive (they didn’t have HIV but molecularly tested positive)

Vaccine Related Myocarditis In Children

  • Without COVID, there is an age and gender gradient to myocarditis – it’s about 80% in boys (teens), 20% in girls
  • A young boy is more likely to be hospitalized of myocarditis than ever be hospitalized from COVID-19 respiratory illness
  • The vaccines do go to the heart and get distributed
  • To date, we have 13,000 certified cases of myocarditis post-vaccine in children
  • Vigorous physical activity can trigger sudden cardiac death
  • Fear: 13% of myocarditis ends up with progressive heart failure
  • Treatment of myocarditis includes no exercise for several months and several drugs to relieve symptoms

Can You Get COVID-19 Twice?

  • We see permanent immunity in people with SARS-CoV-1, supported by 135 studies
  • Thought exercise: if you could catch COVID-19 twice and the elderly are highly susceptible, we would’ve seen it sweep through nursing homes again
  • You cannot get COID-19 twice: what happens is one test is false-positive – or – that person has the deadly virus they keep carrying on
  • Identifying what happens when someone is sick, tests positive, recovers, and repeats the cycle: to meet the rigorous standard you’d have to test positive on low threshold PCR test, and positive on an antigen test, and can find virus through sequencing, and is sick
  • The CDC also admitted that the PCR methodology early in the pandemic could not distinguish between the flu and COVID-19 so it’s possible earlier positive tests were actually flu
  • Resistance to the idea of natural immunity: all roads lead back to vaccine
  • 15% of people who have symptomatic COVID do not have antibodies because the positive controls are set on sick in-patient people – most people who stay home are not that sick

Should People Get Vaccinated If They’ve Had COVID?

  • You cannot get COVID a second time unless you are an exceptionally rare case that no one has encountered
  • The CDC and FDA are sponsors in the vaccine program – the recommendation was originally based out of caution but now we should be more discriminatory
  • Vaccines are not without side effects – if you are not getting the benefits, you may be putting yourself at higher risk of adverse effects
  • If you have had a concrete, characteristic case of COVID-19 and have recovered – you do not need to be vaccinated

Vaccination Totalitarianism

  • In many free countries, the governments are more stringent about vaccination than even the U.S.
  • We’ve opened the door to new levels of governmental power
  • Governments are checking people for papers – suddenly we don’t seem to have an issue with giving governments extreme amounts of power
  • Power and freedom lost is never regained

COVID-19 & Obesity

  • As far as comorbidities, obesity is particularly concerning
  • The virus has two unique components unseen with other viruses: (1) cytokine storm; (2) blood clotting
  • The cytokine storm leads with interleukin-6 which is produced in fat cells so the cytokine storm is much worse
  • The severity of COVID increases with increase in obesity (i.e., 100 pounds overweight is worse than 40 pounds overweight)

Omicron Variant

  • The omicron seems mild so far and is unlikely to surpass delta which was highly transmissible and difficult to treat
  • There are 37 mutations in the spike protein, 6 deletions, 1 insertion
  • Transmissibility indices: original variant = 2; delta = 10; omicron = 4

Is It About The Money?

  • Of course, every business wants to make money
  • There’s a legitimate concern that since the pharmaceutical industry had such a record year because of vaccines, they will try to keep it up in one way or another
  • Typically there’s an investment in billions of dollars into vaccines
  • In its first year Pfizer hit $33 billion – with no development cost (covered by government) and no sales force (because they distribute to the government)
  • This is potentially setting a dangerous precedent: we should never be able to propose a product in the United States without fair balance – there is always risk and benefit
Joe Rogan Experience : , , , , , ,
Notes By Maryann

More Notes on these topics

Top Insights and Tactics From

31 Best Podcasts of All Time

FREE when you join over 35,000 subscribers to the
Podcast Notes newsletter

No Thanks