Big Questions with Cal Fussman – Jocko Willink on Going to War with Your Weaknesses

Intro

• Jocko (@jockowillink) is a former Navy SEAL officer
• He is the host of The Jocko Podcast
• He is also the author of Extreme Ownership: How U.S. Navy SEALs Lead and Win, and Discipline Equals Freedom: Field Manual
• ‘Whoever you are, whatever your thoughts, there is much to be gained from listening to Jocko’s take on life”

What did Cal miss by not going into the military?

• Jocko stresses that in basic training, they drill “attention to detail” into your head
  • “In war, little mistakes can cost people their lives”
• Jocko doesn’t remember wanting to do anything besides go into the military as a kid

Jocko’s Love of Literature

• Despite a father who was a history teacher, and a mom who was an English teacher Jocko did not read growing up
• As an Navy SEAL officer, Jocko realized – “Writing, reading, and verbal communication, are the most important skills to have as a leader in the military”
  • It’s very important to be able to verbally communicate with people and articulate a plan
  • Often, officers have to write documents detailing how they’ll conduct an operation
  • Because of this, when Jocko went to college as a 28 year old after his first stint with the SEALs, he studied English
    • Note that he still hadn’t been to war yet
• “I read every single line, of every single book I was required to read in college”
  • “The books I was reading, revealed to me lots about human nature”
    • Although…”Combat is the most revealing thing in regards to human nature”
  • Jocko knew that the authors he was reading, understood human nature more than him, and he could learn something
    • Especially Shakespeare
  • Jocko recalls a line from his favorite novel, Musashi: An Epic Novel of the Samurai Era
    • “If you understand the way broadly, you’ll see it in everything”

High School

• As a kid, Jocko was skinny, yet fairly rebellious
• He listened to a lot of hard core heavy metal music
• Jocko knew after high school, he would enlist in the Navy
  • “They’ll give me food, a place to sleep, and I’ll get to run around the woods with a machine gun. What’s not to like?”

Navy SEAL Training

• Jocko claims he was never nervous
  • “Everyone wants to be a SEAL, but 80% of people quit during the training”
  • Jocko says that when a person quit, he would never talk to them again
• According to Jocko, the training was VERY hard
• Your mindset isn’t everything
  • “If you’ve got the right mindset, but you can’t climb that rope on the obstacle course because you’re too weak – you won’t make it through the program”
  • Technique is everything – if you don’t know the technique to whatever you’re doing, you’ll be at a significant disadvantage
• “Your going to be awake a lot, it’s a lot of exercise, you’re going to get tired, but you’re going to keep going”
  • “I never thought about quitting at all. I wanted to be a SEAL, and SEALs don’t quit”
• Shallow water blackouts are common in the training
  • How does this happen?
    • Under water, while you’re holding your breath – you’ll get a first urge to breath –  “Ignore the first one”
    • Then it will happen again – “Ignore that one too”
    • Finally when the third urge comes, listen to this one – “If you don’t listen to this one, you’ll go unconscious very quickly”
  • Note from Podcast Notes – I’m sure you could apply this to other areas of life
• But the real training, Jocko claims, is done out in the field
• The instructors are looking for weakness – “When they find your weakness, they’ll rip it apart”
  • “They want to break you. They’re trying to see if you’ll lose your temper, or get flustered in a bad situation.”
  • They’re looking to see how you’ll handle pressure and things unwinding that you can’t control

Vulnerability, Humility, and Weakness

• “If you try to cover up your vulnerabilities, the only person that thinks you’re actually covering them up, is you, because everyone else can see right through”
• Ask yourself – “Where are my weak points?” and fix them – simple as that
  • DON’T hide them
  • You could also delegate or ask for help but DON’T HIDE YOUR WEAK POINTS
• Admit your weaknesses, go to war with them… how?
  • Every day ask yourself where you can improve
• According to Jocko, the most important characteristic of a leader is humility
  • “Humility is the ability to admit that there’s things you don’t know, skills you don’t have, and weaknesses you possess”
  • You must be open to other people helping you in those areas
  • “If you’re not humble in a war zone, that’s very problematic”
  • “Listening reflects humility. If someone doesn’t listen to others, they lack humility, and that’s problematic.”
• However, you can’t be so humble that you lack confidence
• “Often times, when you dig into leadership problems, it roots back to an ego problem – someone who lacks humility”

Extreme Ownership

• The leadership principals used in combat, apply to a corporate organization as well
  • You have a bunch of individual human beings, being unified, with a plan, to go and execute a mission
  • The competition is the enemy – “They’re trying to take food off your table, by stealing your market share”
  • Accidents are also an enemy (in the construction industry for example) – things can go horribly wrong if egos get in the way

Takeaways From Combat

• The 4 Fundamental Laws of Combat
  • Cover and Move 
    • Lay down, cover fire (keep the enemy distracted), and then maneuver to a better position where you can flank
    • You can also do this in business and relationships
      • “Maneuver so you can get inside someones head, and make someone see things a way they wouldn’t have seen them before”
      • “If I’m trying to manipulate you, to get you to do something that’s actually gonna benefit you, and the whole team, that’s called leadership”
      • If you are proficient at flanking people, that’s going to make you a better leader
        • For example, for someone with a big ego..
        • Instead of saying “Cal, your plan sucks”…
        • Say “Cal, I’m looking at your plan and because you’ve been doing this longer than me, I’m not seeing everything you’re seeing. Can you explain this in a little more detail so I can see what you’re trying to make happen?”
        • You can’t go head on – you need to build up their ego and establish trust
  • Keep thing simple
    • Have simple plans
    • Communicate in a concise manner that your team understands
  • Prioritize and execute
    • You’ll always have lots of problems, don’t try to solve them all at once – just solve the biggest first, then move on to the next
  • Decentralized Command
    • Everybody leads on a team
    • “Who knows better what maneuver to make in the front lines, than the person that’s in the front lines?”
• War
  • “Imagine being in a situation where every single thought you have, is about one thing and one thing only. and doing the best possible job at that one thing – that’s a good feeling”
    • There’s zero distractions

Wrapping Up

• Examine for your vulnerabilities, and attack them, day in and day out
  • Do NOT hide from them
• Jocko has another book coming out in September called The Dichotomy of Leadership