
August 9, 2018
Big Questions with Cal Fussman – Jocko Willink on Going to War with Your Weaknesses
Intro
- Jocko (@jockowillink) is a former Navy SEAL officer
- He is the host of The Jocko Podcast
- He is also the author of Extreme Ownership: How U.S. Navy SEALs Lead and Win, and Discipline Equals Freedom: Field Manual
- ‘Whoever you are, whatever your thoughts, there is much to be gained from listening to Jocko’s take on life”
What did Cal miss by not going into the military?
- Jocko stresses that in basic training, they drill “attention to detail” into your head
- “In war, little mistakes can cost people their lives”
- Jocko doesn’t remember wanting to do anything besides go into the military as a kid
Jocko’s Love of Literature
- Despite a father who was a history teacher, and a mom who was an English teacher Jocko did not read growing up
- As an Navy SEAL officer, Jocko realized – “Writing, reading, and verbal communication, are the most important skills to have as a leader in the military”
- It’s very important to be able to verbally communicate with people and articulate a plan
- Often, officers have to write documents detailing how they’ll conduct an operation
- Because of this, when Jocko went to college as a 28 year old after his first stint with the SEALs, he studied English
- Note that he still hadn’t been to war yet
- “I read every single line, of every single book I was required to read in college”
- “The books I was reading, revealed to me lots about human nature”
- Although…”Combat is the most revealing thing in regards to human nature”
- Jocko knew that the authors he was reading, understood human nature more than him, and he could learn something
- Especially Shakespeare
- Jocko recalls a line from his favorite novel, Musashi: An Epic Novel of the Samurai Era
- “If you understand the way broadly, you’ll see it in everything”
- “The books I was reading, revealed to me lots about human nature”
High School
- As a kid, Jocko was skinny, yet fairly rebellious
- He listened to a lot of hard core heavy metal music
- Jocko knew after high school, he would enlist in the Navy
- “They’ll give me food, a place to sleep, and I’ll get to run around the woods with a machine gun. What’s not to like?”
Navy SEAL Training
- Jocko claims he was never nervous
- “Everyone wants to be a SEAL, but 80% of people quit during the training”
- Jocko says that when a person quit, he would never talk to them again
- According to Jocko, the training was VERY hard
- Your mindset isn’t everything
- “If you’ve got the right mindset, but you can’t climb that rope on the obstacle course because you’re too weak – you won’t make it through the program”
- Technique is everything – if you don’t know the technique to whatever you’re doing, you’ll be at a significant disadvantage
- “Your going to be awake a lot, it’s a lot of exercise, you’re going to get tired, but you’re going to keep going”
- “I never thought about quitting at all. I wanted to be a SEAL, and SEALs don’t quit”
- Shallow water blackouts are common in the training
- How does this happen?
- Under water, while you’re holding your breath – you’ll get a first urge to breath – “Ignore the first one”
- Then it will happen again – “Ignore that one too”
- Finally when the third urge comes, listen to this one – “If you don’t listen to this one, you’ll go unconscious very quickly”
- Note from Podcast Notes – I’m sure you could apply this to other areas of life
- How does this happen?
- But the real training, Jocko claims, is done out in the field
- The instructors are looking for weakness – “When they find your weakness, they’ll rip it apart”
- “They want to break you. They’re trying to see if you’ll lose your temper, or get flustered in a bad situation.”
- They’re looking to see how you’ll handle pressure and things unwinding that you can’t control
Vulnerability, Humility, and Weakness
- “If you try to cover up your vulnerabilities, the only person that thinks you’re actually covering them up, is you, because everyone else can see right through”
- Ask yourself – “Where are my weak points?” and fix them – simple as that
- DON’T hide them
- You could also delegate or ask for help but DON’T HIDE YOUR WEAK POINTS
- Admit your weaknesses, go to war with them… how?
- Every day ask yourself where you can improve
- According to Jocko, the most important characteristic of a leader is humility
- “Humility is the ability to admit that there’s things you don’t know, skills you don’t have, and weaknesses you possess”
- You must be open to other people helping you in those areas
- “If you’re not humble in a war zone, that’s very problematic”
- “Listening reflects humility. If someone doesn’t listen to others, they lack humility, and that’s problematic.”
- However, you can’t be so humble that you lack confidence
- “Often times, when you dig into leadership problems, it roots back to an ego problem – someone who lacks humility”
Extreme Ownership
- The leadership principals used in combat, apply to a corporate organization as well
- You have a bunch of individual human beings, being unified, with a plan, to go and execute a mission
- The competition is the enemy – “They’re trying to take food off your table, by stealing your market share”
- Accidents are also an enemy (in the construction industry for example) – things can go horribly wrong if egos get in the way
Takeaways From Combat
- The 4 Fundamental Laws of Combat
- Cover and Move
- Lay down, cover fire (keep the enemy distracted), and then maneuver to a better position where you can flank
- You can also do this in business and relationships
- “Maneuver so you can get inside someones head, and make someone see things a way they wouldn’t have seen them before”
- “If I’m trying to manipulate you, to get you to do something that’s actually gonna benefit you, and the whole team, that’s called leadership”
- If you are proficient at flanking people, that’s going to make you a better leader
- For example, for someone with a big ego..
- Instead of saying “Cal, your plan sucks”…
- Say “Cal, I’m looking at your plan and because you’ve been doing this longer than me, I’m not seeing everything you’re seeing. Can you explain this in a little more detail so I can see what you’re trying to make happen?”
- You can’t go head on – you need to build up their ego and establish trust
- Keep thing simple
- Have simple plans
- Communicate in a concise manner that your team understands
- Prioritize and execute
- You’ll always have lots of problems, don’t try to solve them all at once – just solve the biggest first, then move on to the next
- Decentralized Command
- Everybody leads on a team
- “Who knows better what maneuver to make in the front lines, than the person that’s in the front lines?”
- Cover and Move
- War
- “Imagine being in a situation where every single thought you have, is about one thing and one thing only. and doing the best possible job at that one thing – that’s a good feeling”
- There’s zero distractions
- “Imagine being in a situation where every single thought you have, is about one thing and one thing only. and doing the best possible job at that one thing – that’s a good feeling”
Wrapping Up
- Examine for your vulnerabilities, and attack them, day in and day out
- Do NOT hide from them
- Jocko has another book coming out in September called The Dichotomy of Leadership