June 28, 2020

Microdosing, Biohacking Plant Medicines, Psychedelic-Assisted Psychotherapy, & More | Ronan Levy & Marshall Tyler on Ben Greenfield Fitness

Check out the Ben Greenfield Fitness Episode Page & Show Notes

Psychedelic therapy is when you use psychedelics to catalyze the effects of psychotherapy
The most popular psychedelics currently:
- Psilocybin
- MDMA for the treatment of PTSD
- DMT
- 5-Meo-DMT
For psychedelic therapy, you want psychedelics that don’t last extremely long
- That’s why LSD isn’t used. One trip can last for 12+ hours.
Ronan and Marshall are both part of Field Trip’s management team: a new kind of mental wellness company that combines the science of psychedelic medicine with personalized psychotherapy and mental health wellness practices
It’s currently illegal to grow psilocybin in the U.S. and Canada so the team partnered with the University of West Indies in Jamaica
Psychedelic-assisted psychotherapy is labor-intensive and costs about $300 a session
If you do have a transformational experience, you need to participate and apply what you’ve learned to change your behavior
- “They induce a period of neuroplasticity after the drugs are used, but that neuroplasticity is only valuable if you capitalize on it” – Marshall Tyler

Ronan Levy (@RonanDLevy) is a co-founder and the executive chairman of Field Trip Health, Inc.; partner at Grassfed Ventures
Marshall Tyler is a scientist with a deep interest in psychoactive molecules
Host: Ben Greenfield (@bengreenfield) is the host of the Ben Greenfield Fitness podcast (check out the Podcast Notes)

Psychedelic therapy is when you use psychedelics to catalyze the effects of psychotherapy
The most popular psychedelics currently:
- Psilocybin
- MDMA for the treatment of PTSD
- DMT
- 5-Meo-DMT
For psychedelic therapy, you want psychedelics that don’t last extremely long
- That’s why LSD isn’t used. One trip can last for 12+ hours.

Ronan and Marshall are both part of Field Trip‘s management team: a new kind of mental wellness company that combines the science of psychedelic medicine with personalized psychotherapy and mental health wellness practices
- The current infrastructure (psychiatry, hospitals, doctors, etc.) is not ideal for psychedelic treatments
  - They are trying to build a new infrastructure to support psychedelics as they become more mainstream
    - Having a proper mindset and proper setting is crucial for treatment
Field Trip currently uses racemic ketamine for its psychedelic therapies
- They are also exploring different psychedelic molecules for future treatment
The “spa” experience at Field Trip:
- Beautiful and approachable setting
- Greenspace, zero-gravity chairs, and juice bars
- Not a “transactional” experience like a doctor’s visit
  - It’s about making people feel welcome, safe, and comfortable

Music is specifically tailored to enhance the trip
Ronan has been talking with Wavepaths and Dr. Mendel Kaelen of the Imperial College London about the impact of music on psychedelics
- Which music is appropriate is based on HRV, oximeter, EEG, and skin temperature measurements
  - “It’s something we want to be on the cutting-edge of” – Ronan Lev

It’s currently illegal to grow psilocybin in the U.S. and Canada so the team partnered with the University of West Indies in Jamaica
- They’re trying to learn about different strains within psilocybin
  - “We are actually trying to understand the fungi that produce psilocybin and related molecules” – Marshall Tyler
What grows in Jamaica stays in Jamaica
- Oregon is soon to vote on a bill that would legalize psilocybin-assisted therapy
Whenever you look at psychedelics, you have to look at the risks and benefits
- The “gold standard” treatment is yet to be determined

Psychedelic-assisted psychotherapy is labor-intensive and costs about $300 a session
Field Trip has a “no shaman” policy
- Their protocol is mainly physician-driven currently
  - A medical doctor will do a basic physical so that the patient is physically sound for the therapy treatment
    - A nurse administers the psychedelic and a therapist says with you during the trip
      - After that, there is an integration session where cognitive behavioral techniques are used to lead to a meaningful lifestyle and habit change
        The goal is to treat the patient and send them on their way, not keep them coming back

When a patient reaches out to Field Trip, a care coordinator walks them through the process to determine if the treatment is appropriate
- The patient must have tried conventional treatment before going to Field Trip
  - Then a psychologist does a psychiatrist assessment
    - If that goes well, a doctor performs a physical and if the patient is physically sound, the patient gets their first dose and a therapist guides them through their trip
      - After the trip, the therapist and the patient talk about the experience stay around for another hour or so just to get back to their regular state of mind

Holotropic breathwork can mimic a psychedelic session
Field Trip is exploring telemedicine options with psychedelic therapy
Marshall is excited to learn about the different molecules of psychedelics and breaking down diseases in specific disorders
- There could be different molecules and doses to treat different disorders
Expect to see more clinics open up and offer psychedelic therapy
Ronan believes that by 2022, psilocybin will be available for therapeutic use in Oregon
- We’re still years away from seeing psilocybin use across multiple states, Ronan guesses it won’t happen till 2024 or 2025
Be careful when self-administering psychedelics
- Also, remember these molecules aren’t cure-alls
  - If you do have a transformational experience, you need to participate and apply what you’ve learned to change your behavior
    - “They induce a period of neuroplasticity after the drugs are used, but that neuroplasticity is only valuable if you capitalize on it” – Marshall Tyler
Microdosing isn’t as effective as taking one large dose
- It’s better to use microdosing as a refresher of your experience sometime after you’ve taken a large dose of psychedelics