
June 28, 2020
Microdosing, Biohacking Plant Medicines, Psychedelic-Assisted Psychotherapy, & More | Ronan Levy & Marshall Tyler on Ben Greenfield Fitness
Check out the Ben Greenfield Fitness Episode Page & Show Notes
Key Takeaways
- Psychedelic therapy is when you use psychedelics to catalyze the effects of psychotherapy
- The most popular psychedelics currently:
- Psilocybin
- MDMA for the treatment of PTSD
- DMT
- 5-Meo-DMT
- For psychedelic therapy, you want psychedelics that don’t last extremely long
- That’s why LSD isn’t used. One trip can last for 12+ hours.
- Ronan and Marshall are both part of Field Trip’s management team: a new kind of mental wellness company that combines the science of psychedelic medicine with personalized psychotherapy and mental health wellness practices
- It’s currently illegal to grow psilocybin in the U.S. and Canada so the team partnered with the University of West Indies in Jamaica
- Psychedelic-assisted psychotherapy is labor-intensive and costs about $300 a session
- If you do have a transformational experience, you need to participate and apply what you’ve learned to change your behavior
- “They induce a period of neuroplasticity after the drugs are used, but that neuroplasticity is only valuable if you capitalize on it” – Marshall Tyler
Intro
- Ronan Levy (@RonanDLevy) is a co-founder and the executive chairman of Field Trip Health, Inc.; partner at Grassfed Ventures
- Marshall Tyler is a scientist with a deep interest in psychoactive molecules
- Host: Ben Greenfield (@bengreenfield) is the host of the Ben Greenfield Fitness podcast (check out the Podcast Notes)
About Psychedelic Therapy
- Psychedelic therapy is when you use psychedelics to catalyze the effects of psychotherapy
- The most popular psychedelics currently:
- Psilocybin
- MDMA for the treatment of PTSD
- DMT
- 5-Meo-DMT
- For psychedelic therapy, you want psychedelics that don’t last extremely long
- That’s why LSD isn’t used. One trip can last for 12+ hours.
About Field Trip
- Ronan and Marshall are both part of Field Trip‘s management team: a new kind of mental wellness company that combines the science of psychedelic medicine with personalized psychotherapy and mental health wellness practices
- The current infrastructure (psychiatry, hospitals, doctors, etc.) is not ideal for psychedelic treatments
- They are trying to build a new infrastructure to support psychedelics as they become more mainstream
- Having a proper mindset and proper setting is crucial for treatment
- They are trying to build a new infrastructure to support psychedelics as they become more mainstream
- The current infrastructure (psychiatry, hospitals, doctors, etc.) is not ideal for psychedelic treatments
- Field Trip currently uses racemic ketamine for its psychedelic therapies
- They are also exploring different psychedelic molecules for future treatment
- The “spa” experience at Field Trip:
- Beautiful and approachable setting
- Greenspace, zero-gravity chairs, and juice bars
- Not a “transactional” experience like a doctor’s visit
- It’s about making people feel welcome, safe, and comfortable
The Importance Of Music In Treatment
- Music is specifically tailored to enhance the trip
- Ronan has been talking with Wavepaths and Dr. Mendel Kaelen of the Imperial College London about the impact of music on psychedelics
Incorporating Psilocybin Into Their Practice
- It’s currently illegal to grow psilocybin in the U.S. and Canada so the team partnered with the University of West Indies in Jamaica
- They’re trying to learn about different strains within psilocybin
- “We are actually trying to understand the fungi that produce psilocybin and related molecules” – Marshall Tyler
- They’re trying to learn about different strains within psilocybin
- What grows in Jamaica stays in Jamaica
- Oregon is soon to vote on a bill that would legalize psilocybin-assisted therapy
- Whenever you look at psychedelics, you have to look at the risks and benefits
- The “gold standard” treatment is yet to be determined
Psychedelic-assisted Psychotherapy Sessions
- Psychedelic-assisted psychotherapy is labor-intensive and costs about $300 a session
- Field Trip has a “no shaman” policy
- Their protocol is mainly physician-driven currently
- A medical doctor will do a basic physical so that the patient is physically sound for the therapy treatment
- A nurse administers the psychedelic and a therapist says with you during the trip
- After that, there is an integration session where cognitive behavioral techniques are used to lead to a meaningful lifestyle and habit change
- The goal is to treat the patient and send them on their way, not keep them coming back
- After that, there is an integration session where cognitive behavioral techniques are used to lead to a meaningful lifestyle and habit change
- A nurse administers the psychedelic and a therapist says with you during the trip
- A medical doctor will do a basic physical so that the patient is physically sound for the therapy treatment
- Their protocol is mainly physician-driven currently
The Patient’s Experience
- When a patient reaches out to Field Trip, a care coordinator walks them through the process to determine if the treatment is appropriate
- The patient must have tried conventional treatment before going to Field Trip
- Then a psychologist does a psychiatrist assessment
- If that goes well, a doctor performs a physical and if the patient is physically sound, the patient gets their first dose and a therapist guides them through their trip
- After the trip, the therapist and the patient talk about the experience stay around for another hour or so just to get back to their regular state of mind
- If that goes well, a doctor performs a physical and if the patient is physically sound, the patient gets their first dose and a therapist guides them through their trip
- Then a psychologist does a psychiatrist assessment
- The patient must have tried conventional treatment before going to Field Trip
Additional Notes
- Holotropic breathwork can mimic a psychedelic session
- Field Trip is exploring telemedicine options with psychedelic therapy
- Marshall is excited to learn about the different molecules of psychedelics and breaking down diseases in specific disorders
- There could be different molecules and doses to treat different disorders
- Expect to see more clinics open up and offer psychedelic therapy
- Ronan believes that by 2022, psilocybin will be available for therapeutic use in Oregon
- We’re still years away from seeing psilocybin use across multiple states, Ronan guesses it won’t happen till 2024 or 2025
- Be careful when self-administering psychedelics
- Also, remember these molecules aren’t cure-alls
- If you do have a transformational experience, you need to participate and apply what you’ve learned to change your behavior
- “They induce a period of neuroplasticity after the drugs are used, but that neuroplasticity is only valuable if you capitalize on it” – Marshall Tyler
- If you do have a transformational experience, you need to participate and apply what you’ve learned to change your behavior
- Also, remember these molecules aren’t cure-alls
- Microdosing isn’t as effective as taking one large dose
- It’s better to use microdosing as a refresher of your experience sometime after you’ve taken a large dose of psychedelics