The Joe Rogan Experience: Rhonda Patrick (Part 2/2)

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Full Episode, Podcast Score: 9/10 Microphones

Sponsors: Squarespace (code: Joe), Legalzoom, MeundiesOnnit (code: Rogan)

Find Rhonda Patrick at: Foundmyfitness.com, @foundmyfitness

Part II

Cold Therapy Discussion Continued:

  • Biomarkers (markers in your blood that can be tested) to establish level of exercise during a study:
    • Pro-inflammatory cytokines (e.g. IL beta and TNF-alpha) to be tested right after exercise
    • Then use cold therapy and compare the impact/not in a trial and what might be happening with people who are over-training and may benefit
    • Wrestlers are often chronically over trained, likely to toughest MMA fighters as they are used to training far past their limits
      • Measuring these biomarkers might be a way to quantify if they are over training or not (not currently done in UFC)
    • You of course can train to increase your capacity/threshold, but there is eventually a limit to this
    • Steve Maxwell: Measuring heart rate as a good baseline indicator each morning
      • If above normal, you’ve overly worked out before and you need to give yourself a break or it’s going too far
  • Gut Health Continued:
    • Joe drinks 2 kombucha/per day, and eats lots of kimchi (Korean spicy fermented cabbage)
    • If you have chronic inflammation, your immune system is working hard to battle that all the time and has less capacity to tackle infections/sicknesses
    • Jijiutsu fighters often get infections such as Staph (including Joe)
      • After taking antibiotics Joe felt he was drained, “dumb” and brain is not firing right
      • This has been shown in studies as you’re wiping out both good and bad bacteria
      • There is a link of the bacteria of brain and your gut
      • Studies have shown that fecal transplants from non-anxious/skinny people to anxious/overweight and improved their anxiety and weight
        • Not sure exactly why yet
      • Certain lactobacillus bacteria produce Gamma inhibitory transmitters that alone do not cross the blood brain barrier, HOWEVER they do inhibit pro-inflammatory cytokines in the gut
        • Those do cross blood-brain barrier and cause problems such as stopping serotonin from being released
    • Vagal Nerve: Direct line from the Gut to the Brain
      • (note: A vagal nerve blocking medical device (MAESTRO VBLOC) was recently approved in the US to treat obesity)
      • Maybe following your “gut instinct” is right, as there are directly connections with the brain (along with connections to your immune/lymphatic system)
    • Flotation:
      • Rhonda tried first recently and found it an easy structure for meditation
    • Benefits of Meditation:
      • Slow cognitive aging- can increase volume of brain matter in certain regions
      • Also effects aging process in general via prevent shortening of telomeres (little strands at ends of DNA, sort of like the tips of shoe laces) by activation telomerase
        • Normally a telomere shortens as DNA is replicated that gets just a little shorter each time and eventually it dies or become senescent (sits around causing problems)
        • Telomerase can help rebuild the telomeres, but are not active in most of our cells (except stem cells)
      • TA-65: Activates telomerase even more than meditation
        • If you have lots of cell damage (e.g. via unhealthy lifestyle like heavy drinking/smoking), you’re cell can choose to die instead of becoming cancerous
        • So the risk is that cancer cells use the telomerase all the time to overcome this cell death that keeps us safe (long term studies need to validate safety)
        • Probably not a good idea to take this if you are at risk for cancer or have cancer already (same with folic acid, and beta carotene)
    • Vitamins: Use them to optimize how you feel, think and live
      • Hard to “do it right” as we are all different depending on each of our genetics and lifestyle
        • You can sequence common gene polymorphisms and read it using Promothease) to learn about some of the genetic factors
          • Free tool at Foudmyfitness.com to understand key genes from your 23andme data
        • g. genes limit your ability to use Vitamin D/Folate/Vitamin A and those people need much greater levels of them to reach normal levels
          • Some people cannot metabolize fats as well, they tend to have weight gain when on a Ketogenic Diet
          • Low phosfalcholine leads to fatty liver and higher risk of Alzheimer’s
        • See general value of vitamins: See Rhonda’s discussion with Dr. Bruce Ames on the Triage Theory for the value of vitamins
    • Cholesterol:
      • You make it in your body, so not only from foods
      • Brain cholesterol are all made, not from food
      • Precursor for making your own cholesterol is Acetyl-CoA which you do get from food like carbs
        • Eating Vegan? It is Feasible to have sufficient LDL on a vegan diet, but may be harder to have enough for when you need LDL for cell damage repair – just a lot of work to get it right (need enough fat/protein)
    • Acidity in Gut:
      • People think making your blood alkaline to kill cancer: NONSENSE
      • Cancer no longer uses oxygen to make energy, just using glucose and cells make lactic acid, but nothing to do with an acidic environment
        • This is why starving a cancer cell of glucose it can slow growth or kill it
    • Bikram/Hot Yoga. Training in hot gyms:
      • Similar to benefit of sauna heat = Heat Shock Proteins (see Part I), blood flow to heart
      • Yes, training in heat has shown improvements in endurance
      • Also been shown that heat stress protects neurons from cell death
      • Dynorphins made during hot period (counter to endorphin) and make you feel bad during, but also why you feel great afterwards
      • Caveat: It is a stress – so if you’re already stressing your body, combining them can be bad. So maybe well before an expected stress, but maybe not afterwards
        • Cold therapy after a stress (e.g. overtraining, surgery) is more likely to be better
    • Myostatin Inhibitors: Inhibits what normally limits muscle growth
      • Tweet from Rhonda on myostatin-inhibited pigs (via genetic engineering with CRSPR)
        • CRSPR is a big innovation in making gene editing much more feasible
          • g. More complex to do this in adults, as it needs to be targeted to specific areas (easier in blood and being done with immune cells that can recognize cancer cells and kill it and then transplant back to humans)
          • China already experimenting with human In vitro embryos that had already failed (US slower due to regulations needed)
          • Plenty going on that we don’t yet understand
        • Some dogs have this is look “insane” from a gene variant
        • Myostatin has beeen shown to increase longevity in mice
    • CRISPR:
      • Radiolab: CRISPR highly recommended by Joe and Rhonda
      • Certain repetitive sequences were found in DNA of bacteria that didn’t belong to the bacteria, it was actual viral
      • Hypothesis was that DNA was to fight off a virus
      • Caspase-9 is conserved in people, bacteria, viruses and scientists at Berkeley (first published in 2012) figured out to use this to insert specific sites (by cleaving = cutting) much more effectively and successfully than in the past
        • Old Method: Blast a virus with desired gene at a chromosome and hope it goes somewhere with limited and not very targeted success
        • New CRISPR Method: Can precisely select where on the chromosome the inserted DNA goes
      • Implications are very broad and likely significant/maybe scary
      • Rhonda expects that we can take stem cells, edit them to fix a specific polymorphism and transplant it back into a person (makes sense for diseases/problems with single/known genetic risks/causes – harder for diseases that do not have known genetic causes/risk factors)
      • We also have the ability to turn all cells into stem cells
    • Placenta Stem Cells:
      • Joe has a stem cell injection from a women’s placenta to try needing surgery
      • Rhonda’s colleague (Frans K.?) found out that placenta’s have more stem cells, much more so than the umbilical chord and able to form almost every cell type (blood, liver, neurons, etc.)
      • BUT placenta banking is quite rare, but wasn’t aware how you can find matches (Joe found his in Vegas)
      • Be wary as the viability and quality of the stem cell is likely to vary widely
      • When trying to recover you should take Vitamin D and marine Omega 3 fatty acids (along with benefits to brain health – such as ADHD, autism, compulsive behavior) –
        • Rhonda recently published a paper on the benefit of Vitamin D and Omega-3 on the serotonin pathway which is stopped by E2 series prostaglandins which also affect serotonin receptor function
        • Serotonin is key for executive function and without it people become very compulsive (Joe finds that he does this when he is exhausted, at this time tryptophan no longer gets to the brain, and more likely to engage in addictive type behavior)
        • People with polymorphisms that impact serotonin pathways, they are most prone to deficiencies in Vitamin D/Omega 3’s and need them the most

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